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T O P I C R E V I E WhannaramaaI was listening to Eckhart Tolle tonight about one-sided love relationships, and the great pain that comes afterwards when it suddenly popped in my head that one of the effects for Moon / Pluto *in hard aspect* in houses 11/5... maybe others... is love going unreciprocated by people, instead of Venus square Saturn like we're always quick to blame. What do you think? Can Pluto be unresponsive in that regard?RandallBump!FaithSlow down, you are thinking too fast. Eckhart warned against that, didn't he? Or maybe he was talking so slowly, he made you want to accelerate the pace.My Saturn opposing Mercury is here to lay on the brakes.First, do you mean moon-Pluto in synastry? Or natal?If synastry: I think you're asking if the Pluto person would be unresponsive to the moon, so the moon's affections are unrequited? If natal: I think you're asking if the person is self-defeating in love matters because Pluto prevents the moon from forming attachments. Am I close?hannaramaa quote:Originally posted by Faith:Slow down, you are thinking too fast. Eckhart warned against that, didn't he? Or maybe he was talking so slowly, he made you want to accelerate the pace.My Saturn opposing Mercury is here to lay on the brakes.First, do you mean moon-Pluto in synastry? Or natal?If synastry: I think you're asking if the Pluto person would be unresponsive to the moon, so the moon's affections are unrequited? If natal: I think you're asking if the person is self-defeating in love matters because Pluto prevents the moon from forming attachments. Am I close?I meant natally but I posted here because it involved relationships, perhaps it would've been better in A2.0 but anyway...Not that the person is self-defeating, but will Pluto in the 5th house bring on just as many unrequited love situations as Saturn squares do? Can Pluto signify cold rejection the same way Saturn can? Now I'm off on another stream of consciousness (haha) because of how the pain may differ between Saturn and Pluto... maybe that's what I was getting at all along? Julz87Hey Hanna I don't mean to take over your thread but I'd also like to know Faiths interpretation on both natal and synastry."If synastry: I think you're asking if the Pluto person would be unresponsive to the moon, so the moon's affections are unrequited?"Faith, how would a square between Pluto and Moon workout in synastry?? its a tight square to the degree. Pluto Libra and Capricorn MoonMy take on the natal interpretation would be, that the individual may have a thing to control emotions in themselves and in others - sorta like emotional manipulation but may experience intense emotions I doubt they'd be unresponsive. This is for the trine, sextile and maybe conjunct aspect.For the opposition or square could be the person can't control emotions. Or can't express them in a constructive way. (I think I'm wrong here)Faith quote:Originally posted by hannaramaa:Not that the person is self-defeating, but will Pluto in the 5th house bring on just as many unrequited love situations as Saturn squares do? Can Pluto signify cold rejection the same way Saturn can? Saturn squares bring unrequited love situations? But not in a self-defeating way? I'm trying to imagine how that would work. Let's say Saturn square Venus would deal with unrequited love because:1) ...they start to get involved with a person and their affections freeze up when that person likes them. Or2)...they start to get involved with a person and as their feelings intensify, somehow it causes the other person to back away.Then you said, "Can Pluto signify cold rejection the same way Saturn can?"To me, it's an even colder rejection with Pluto. It's stark. While Venus square Saturn is standoffish and reserved, but capable of a kind of detached warmth, Pluto squares would be more all-or-nothing. They could snap in a moment of fury, they are just more emotionally deep and volatile. From what I've seen, it's like sometimes Pluto squares will erupt from the subconscious and the person doesn't even understand why they just got SO pi$$ed off at someone whom they actually love. But...when that happens....Pluto is self-defeating. There's always the responsibility to stabilize ourselves, and stable people tend to fare better in longer-term relationships...just to state the obvious. quote:Originally posted by hannaramaa:Now I'm off on another stream of consciousness (haha) because of how the pain may differ between Saturn and Pluto... maybe that's what I was getting at all along? Well that's what I ended up answering, or attempting to. OrangeSaturn thinks that he is unlovable and not worthy of love, hence Saturn may reject love prematurely or be difficult upon receiving it, because Saturn doesnt believe it.Pluto is afraid that someone or something will take the love away against their will, including death of a loved one, hence Pluto rejects love prematurely in order to avoid future pain.Same result, different reasoning. Faith quote:Originally posted by Julz87:Faith, how would a square between Pluto and Moon workout in synastry?? its a tight square to the degree. Pluto Libra and Capricorn MoonI think Libra Pluto and Cap moons can get along just fine, but Libra Pluto won't always indulge the Cap moon's need to feel they are *right.* (They put so much effort into being right, it's exasperating to get no credit for it.)editFaith quote:Originally posted by Orange:Saturn thinks that he is unlovable and not worthy of love, hence Saturn may reject love prematurely or be difficult upon receiving it, because Saturn doesnt believe it.Pluto is afraid that someone or something will take the love away against their will, including death of a loved one, hence Pluto rejects love prematurely in order to avoid future pain.Same result, different reasoning. Short and to the point -- thanks!Aubyanne quote:Originally posted by hannaramaa:I was listening to Eckhart Tolle tonight about one-sided love relationships, and the great pain that comes afterwards when it suddenly popped in my head that one of the effects for Moon / Pluto *in hard aspect* in houses 11/5... maybe others... is love going unreciprocated by people, instead of Venus square Saturn like we're always quick to blame. What do you think? Can Pluto be unresponsive in that regard?Well, as a PLUTO opposite MOON in his 5H (and my 8H) I can't say we've had this problem. colorful butterfly quote:Originally posted by Aubyanne: Well, as a PLUTO opposite MOON in his 5H (and my 8H) I can't say we've had this problem. I have moon conjunct pluto in libra in my 2cond house. What would this mean for me? fiolaA friend of mine has it natally,our plutos conjunct so we have it in synastry too. would this mean that he would feel restricted emotionally with me ?Southern SunI have Sag moon sextile a friend's Libra Pluto, whereas his Leo moon squares my Scorpio Pluto.It somtimes feels like a chain around the neck, and I feel like I'm the first one to hit the eject button. But I can't quit this guy, he is truly supportive in a way I've never experienced even with my own relatives.DopGang quote:Originally posted by Orange:Saturn thinks that he is unlovable and not worthy of love, hence Saturn may reject love prematurely or be difficult upon receiving it, because Saturn doesnt believe it.Pluto is afraid that someone or something will take the love away against their will, including death of a loved one, hence Pluto rejects love prematurely in order to avoid future pain.Same result, different reasoning. Wow! Now that's accurate! lhanzei have a tight conjunction of moon and pluto natally in my first house. all i can say in regards of love give-and-take is that the intensity of feelings i usually direct on my partners is not for faint-hearted... it either attracts them very much or make them run away, sometimes both) maybe that's why there can be such idea as lack of love. but the point is that moon-pluto is about penetrating into other people psyches and sensing their pain, their inhibitions, hurt feelings. this energy wave is meant to purify and release tensions, it's a healing vibe. not all people are ready to confront this.another thing is that moon-pluto makes you go very deep, exploring space, so somehow it can be named "obsessive" attitude. also not many people can embrace such intensity.don't worry, there is no lack of love. it's just you trying to tame and learn to manage your power.Doux Rêve quote:Originally posted by fiola:A friend of mine has it natally,our plutos conjunct so we have it in synastry too. would this mean that he would feel restricted emotionally with me ?This has been true for me, but I also have Moon opposite SATURN so emotions and emotional expression are naturally restricted in my case. Doux Rêve quote:Originally posted by hannaramaa:it suddenly popped in my head that one of the effects for Moon / Pluto *in hard aspect* in houses 11/5... maybe others... is love going unreciprocated by people, instead of Venus square Saturn I wouldn't say it's a Moon/Pluto thing, no. I think Moon/Pluto usually senses some kind of interest in others and that's when things can go wrong, either because they become too intense too quickly or because they start to control themselves (or the other person) too much (or both). The other thing that can happen is that they subconsciously (or not) look for "drama". Like somehow they always end up in emotionally difficult situations. It's not that the people they're into aren't into THEM, it's more like, they're very emotionally complex themselves and act weird... It's a mirroring effect or a kind of projection. The reason is that the Moon *needs* PLUTO energy to feel familiar... because familiarity is linked to safety - even if it's not true. And if the Pluto experience was a difficult one and emotional trauma is the result, then the Moon/Pluto person will find themselves attracted to/entangled in situations where there's a lot of "emotionally messed up stuff" going on. It's what feels attractive in an almost "compulsive" way (repetition compulsion).I wouldn't say it's a neutral, or detached kind of indifference or unrequited love. It's a broody, complicated, emotionally difficult situation, even if it looks like the other person simply doesn't care (<- THAT's what Venus/Saturn or even Venus/Neptune is about, in my view). SunnyaEditClaudineHello!I have moon conj pluto in 5th house in natal and all my love interests were somewhat unrequited. Idk if it's the aspects' reason or something else.I am 22, so I still need to figure it out.PsWhen someone approaching me I can never fully accept their feelings too.And this is only about love partners relationships. So no problems with friends and acquaintances.------------------*English isn't my native language.llewsacm quote:Originally posted by Orange:Saturn thinks that he is unlovable and not worthy of love, hence Saturn may reject love prematurely or be difficult upon receiving it, because Saturn doesnt believe it.Pluto is afraid that someone or something will take the love away against their will, including death of a loved one, hence Pluto rejects love prematurely in order to avoid future pain.Same result, different reasoning. Agreed! Spot on sista!
Eckhart warned against that, didn't he? Or maybe he was talking so slowly, he made you want to accelerate the pace.
My Saturn opposing Mercury is here to lay on the brakes.
First, do you mean moon-Pluto in synastry? Or natal?
If synastry: I think you're asking if the Pluto person would be unresponsive to the moon, so the moon's affections are unrequited?
If natal: I think you're asking if the person is self-defeating in love matters because Pluto prevents the moon from forming attachments. Am I close?
quote:Originally posted by Faith:Slow down, you are thinking too fast. Eckhart warned against that, didn't he? Or maybe he was talking so slowly, he made you want to accelerate the pace.My Saturn opposing Mercury is here to lay on the brakes.First, do you mean moon-Pluto in synastry? Or natal?If synastry: I think you're asking if the Pluto person would be unresponsive to the moon, so the moon's affections are unrequited? If natal: I think you're asking if the person is self-defeating in love matters because Pluto prevents the moon from forming attachments. Am I close?
I meant natally but I posted here because it involved relationships, perhaps it would've been better in A2.0 but anyway...
Not that the person is self-defeating, but will Pluto in the 5th house bring on just as many unrequited love situations as Saturn squares do? Can Pluto signify cold rejection the same way Saturn can?
Now I'm off on another stream of consciousness (haha) because of how the pain may differ between Saturn and Pluto... maybe that's what I was getting at all along?
"If synastry: I think you're asking if the Pluto person would be unresponsive to the moon, so the moon's affections are unrequited?"
Faith, how would a square between Pluto and Moon workout in synastry?? its a tight square to the degree. Pluto Libra and Capricorn Moon
My take on the natal interpretation would be, that the individual may have a thing to control emotions in themselves and in others - sorta like emotional manipulation but may experience intense emotions I doubt they'd be unresponsive. This is for the trine, sextile and maybe conjunct aspect.
For the opposition or square could be the person can't control emotions. Or can't express them in a constructive way. (I think I'm wrong here)
quote:Originally posted by hannaramaa:Not that the person is self-defeating, but will Pluto in the 5th house bring on just as many unrequited love situations as Saturn squares do? Can Pluto signify cold rejection the same way Saturn can?
Saturn squares bring unrequited love situations? But not in a self-defeating way? I'm trying to imagine how that would work. Let's say Saturn square Venus would deal with unrequited love because:
1) ...they start to get involved with a person and their affections freeze up when that person likes them. Or
2)...they start to get involved with a person and as their feelings intensify, somehow it causes the other person to back away.
Then you said, "Can Pluto signify cold rejection the same way Saturn can?"
To me, it's an even colder rejection with Pluto. It's stark. While Venus square Saturn is standoffish and reserved, but capable of a kind of detached warmth, Pluto squares would be more all-or-nothing. They could snap in a moment of fury, they are just more emotionally deep and volatile.
From what I've seen, it's like sometimes Pluto squares will erupt from the subconscious and the person doesn't even understand why they just got SO pi$$ed off at someone whom they actually love. But...when that happens....Pluto is self-defeating. There's always the responsibility to stabilize ourselves, and stable people tend to fare better in longer-term relationships...just to state the obvious.
quote:Originally posted by hannaramaa:Now I'm off on another stream of consciousness (haha) because of how the pain may differ between Saturn and Pluto... maybe that's what I was getting at all along?
Well that's what I ended up answering, or attempting to.
Pluto is afraid that someone or something will take the love away against their will, including death of a loved one, hence Pluto rejects love prematurely in order to avoid future pain.
Same result, different reasoning.
quote:Originally posted by Julz87:Faith, how would a square between Pluto and Moon workout in synastry?? its a tight square to the degree. Pluto Libra and Capricorn Moon
I think Libra Pluto and Cap moons can get along just fine, but Libra Pluto won't always indulge the Cap moon's need to feel they are *right.* (They put so much effort into being right, it's exasperating to get no credit for it.)
edit
quote:Originally posted by Orange:Saturn thinks that he is unlovable and not worthy of love, hence Saturn may reject love prematurely or be difficult upon receiving it, because Saturn doesnt believe it.Pluto is afraid that someone or something will take the love away against their will, including death of a loved one, hence Pluto rejects love prematurely in order to avoid future pain.Same result, different reasoning.
Short and to the point -- thanks!
quote:Originally posted by hannaramaa:I was listening to Eckhart Tolle tonight about one-sided love relationships, and the great pain that comes afterwards when it suddenly popped in my head that one of the effects for Moon / Pluto *in hard aspect* in houses 11/5... maybe others... is love going unreciprocated by people, instead of Venus square Saturn like we're always quick to blame. What do you think? Can Pluto be unresponsive in that regard?
Well, as a PLUTO opposite MOON in his 5H (and my 8H) I can't say we've had this problem.
quote:Originally posted by Aubyanne: Well, as a PLUTO opposite MOON in his 5H (and my 8H) I can't say we've had this problem.
I have moon conjunct pluto in libra in my 2cond house. What would this mean for me?
It somtimes feels like a chain around the neck, and I feel like I'm the first one to hit the eject button. But I can't quit this guy, he is truly supportive in a way I've never experienced even with my own relatives.
Wow! Now that's accurate!
but the point is that moon-pluto is about penetrating into other people psyches and sensing their pain, their inhibitions, hurt feelings. this energy wave is meant to purify and release tensions, it's a healing vibe. not all people are ready to confront this.
another thing is that moon-pluto makes you go very deep, exploring space, so somehow it can be named "obsessive" attitude. also not many people can embrace such intensity.
don't worry, there is no lack of love. it's just you trying to tame and learn to manage your power.
quote:Originally posted by fiola:A friend of mine has it natally,our plutos conjunct so we have it in synastry too. would this mean that he would feel restricted emotionally with me ?
This has been true for me, but I also have Moon opposite SATURN so emotions and emotional expression are naturally restricted in my case.
quote:Originally posted by hannaramaa:it suddenly popped in my head that one of the effects for Moon / Pluto *in hard aspect* in houses 11/5... maybe others... is love going unreciprocated by people, instead of Venus square Saturn
I wouldn't say it's a Moon/Pluto thing, no. I think Moon/Pluto usually senses some kind of interest in others and that's when things can go wrong, either because they become too intense too quickly or because they start to control themselves (or the other person) too much (or both).
The other thing that can happen is that they subconsciously (or not) look for "drama". Like somehow they always end up in emotionally difficult situations. It's not that the people they're into aren't into THEM, it's more like, they're very emotionally complex themselves and act weird... It's a mirroring effect or a kind of projection.
The reason is that the Moon *needs* PLUTO energy to feel familiar... because familiarity is linked to safety - even if it's not true. And if the Pluto experience was a difficult one and emotional trauma is the result, then the Moon/Pluto person will find themselves attracted to/entangled in situations where there's a lot of "emotionally messed up stuff" going on. It's what feels attractive in an almost "compulsive" way (repetition compulsion).
I wouldn't say it's a neutral, or detached kind of indifference or unrequited love. It's a broody, complicated, emotionally difficult situation, even if it looks like the other person simply doesn't care (<- THAT's what Venus/Saturn or even Venus/Neptune is about, in my view).
------------------*English isn't my native language.
Agreed! Spot on sista!
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